Ravenslide - A Lesson on Influence

published Sep 02, 2019 | | |
Card draw simulator
Odds: 0% – 0% – 0% – 0% more
Derived from
None. Self-made deck here.
Inspiration for
Ravenslide 2 - Advanced Influentials 1 1 2

ironcache 189

This deck made Deputy Way, former World Champion™, concede after the first play on the first round. As a result, I postulate that this must be the best deck in Doomtown's history.

The goal of this deck was to punish an observable trend of those that have abandoned God in their rigid starts; the core idea was to try to get to 6 CP by the first round to pressure sub-6 influence starts.

To start with, at the cheap cost of 2 GR, Raven is an easy include for the idea. It should be noted that Raven does not require that you actually control any opposing deeds for the CP, as long as your opposition also controls zero. Then, with an array of cheap 2-CP deeds, MCC is another great CP generator. The two work together fantastically, with Raven protecting the MCC deed.

Boring Math Fact: Including 20 2-CP deeds in the deck (as this deck does) makes the chance of getting at least one in the opening hand ~94%. If starting a decent grifter, the chance of not seeing a deed for T1 is negligible. So this is a fairly reliable 3 CP for round 1.

It should be noted how great 4s are for the deck at this point. Forcing a first round fight at the MCC deed makes Siege Of The Orphanage, a card that most other aggressive decks cannot capitalize on because of the situational positional requirements, work excellently in this deck. Tusk increases deed consistency and makes the low value starts less likely to eat a shotgun, The Extra Bet and Gateway Station are both good 2 CP deeds, and there are several great dudes.

It's not immediately clear how to squeeze much more CP out of this reliably. Deeds, Doris, and Roberto are all hard to make reliable (when factoring in needing to protect a 2-CP MCC deed). The key to really giving this deck the CP pressure it aimed for was to get 3 CP out of a Whateley start (6 total CP).

Making this work is incredibly tight; of MCC's 18 starting rock, Whateley eats 7 and all the income, and Raven eats a further 2. 1 needs to be left in reserve, or else Whateley's tears will repay the bank on losing lowball (which would obviously be a scoop, and is thus unacceptable risk). So that leaves 8 Rock left to pay for the remaining dudes. 3 influential dudes are needed for Whateley, but all of Morgan's true and mobile influence options come at a cost of 3+ on turn 1... 3x3=9... too much by 1 GR.

Enter Johnny. At 4 cost, it seems like the opposite of the direction the deck needs to go. But there's an important point to consider here; Whateley gives all dudes an ability, even the uninfluential. The first sentence of an ability forms a restricting condition to play the ability, but if that sentence is of the form "If X, then do Y", that condition is always met and the ability can be used (even if you do not meet the internal condition on X and thus do not get to do Y). So 0 influence dudes can attempt to use Whateley's ability, and then get interrupted by Johnny so that they don't pointlessly boot themselves. This allows any 1-cost chump in place of an influential dude, and net saves the 1 GR needed for the last cultist.

Less Boring Fact: The play that caused Mr. Way to concede T1 was MCC ability w/ Whateley on Whateley Estate... if you have no force fight in hand, what can you do, really?

But what if they know the trick? They can just start any 6 influence they want and starve out the 0 income start. Worse, what if they're playing Full Moon Brotherhood and just nullify Whateley?

This is why Whateley is not listed as a core starter. The deck can turn from a 16/16 first round 6 CP Whateley all-in into a 15/15 that is capable of playing a little longer game by subbing out Whateley with Ramiro Mendoza and John "Aces" Radcliffe (or Howard Aswell against FMB). With several cheap dudes and Johnny + Irving still as a start for MCC plays that generate further commerce, the deck can force a fight quickly. This alternate start beat the Deputy in every game we played up until he reconsidered his low influence hedonism (at which point he did get some vengeance; but the deck had taught the lesson it set out to by then).

Still very much a WIP on my end, but I was bored in the CDG airport so decided to write it up and release it raw. If your meta has some folks running stagnant, high-power, low-influence starting lines, or you're otherwise just looking for a fun deck that is guaranteed to be able to end the game in a few rounds (has been great for lunch-time Doomtown), consider giving it a shot; it isn't as janky as it looks on paper/browser.

And remember to praise him (even if this deck doesn't...).

Sep 02, 2019 ironcache

I think my write up was too long and broke dtdb :(

Sep 02, 2019 ironcache

Fixed it.

Sep 02, 2019 ironcache

Some considerations, for the interested:

  • 2nd bank is a good card for the deck
  • Might be able to do better on a cheating res that ricochet, but coachwhip is not an option (Siege is too strong).
  • Need to use a 2CP deed value for your values to make this work. I pointed out how good 4 is, and went with 3 for my second value as coachwhip is already amazing, but also helps prevent Raven downside. A or 2 are contenders.
Sep 02, 2019 ironcache

Sun not coachwhip... Last comment, promise.

Sep 03, 2019 jordan caldwell

Correction. You do need to control one opposing deed. Raven math is an inequality problem, and 0 > 0 is a false sentence.

Sep 03, 2019 jordan caldwell

What about start Willa Mae MacGowan (so you can "flee" Siege Of The Orphanage), switch 3's for A's, quadruple down on Hired Guns, and instead of Ricochet, deal in some Moving Forward?

This'll keep your essential structure, your awesome line of 4's, and have ways to fetch your kill cards!?

Sep 03, 2019 ironcache

0 > 0 is false. 0 >= 0 is true.

Sep 03, 2019 ironcache

Willa vs. Luke is definitely worth consideration. Notes on Luke are that he's the only 2 bullet in the Whateley start (intended shooter, but also mitigate Raven downside if I need to start a fight).

Sep 03, 2019 ironcache

While we're on the topic of the 1 cost chump to include, it should be noted that I view Henry as a bad call in this niche circumstance, since him booting on lowball would be -1 CP.

Sep 04, 2019 jordan caldwell

Holy shit you are right.

Sep 04, 2019 Prodigy

Fun idea & deck - reminds me of one that Gozik made back in the day.

However, I have some bad news about Nicodemus - he's been errata'd awhile ago to have a maximum of 3 CPs (not sure why dtdb shows the old version). 5 CP by end of turn 1/2 is still a lot, but not the more magical number of 6.

New version reads: While your dudes are at in-town deeds, they gain the ability: “Noon, Boot: If this dude has 1 or more influence, give Nicodemus a control point, to a maximum of 3.”

Sep 04, 2019 Prodigy

Or are you counting on Raven for that 6th CP, assuming they will not be able to control your deed?

Sep 04, 2019 ironcache

With 6 influence, they will almost certainly not control your deed. If they control the deed, you lose more than just the Raven CP, you also lose the deed CP (so that puts it at 3, not 5). The write up explains the plan: 1 Raven, 2 deed, 3 Whateley. 6 total, pretty reliably.

If they walk into the deed, you can also just start a fight on it. Raven ability will counterbalance Raven downside, worst case scenario. Siege in hand is a colossal advantage here.

Sep 04, 2019 ironcache

But of course there's usually going to be no reason to initiate the callout. Let them call you out unless you're worried about them controlling the deed (in the niche case they beat your 6 influence...). Then Raven downside isn't an issue.

Sep 05, 2019 jordan caldwell

Also title is misleading. This is not a "slide" deck.

This is a Raven Hammer.

Sep 05, 2019 ironcache

It pushes out as many CP from deeds as it can every round. Just happens to only last one round. It's like the drag racer of slide decks.

(It's somewhat tongue in cheek, but I feel like there's ample info in the write up that this is not misleading)

Sep 05, 2019 ironcache

It pushes out as many CP from deeds as it can every round. Just happens to only last one round. It's like the drag racer of slide decks.

(It's somewhat tongue in cheek, but I feel like there's ample info in the write up that this is not misleading)

Sep 05, 2019 ironcache

Or rather, the title may be misleading, but the write up elucidates.

Sep 05, 2019 Prodigy

Goziks version of this, back before Nicodemus was errata'd:


Sep 05, 2019 ironcache

Use of bunkhouse for giving influence to the uninfluential is neat, but I can't get behind that it is working against its own intended win con (by giving the opponent more influence, as Gozik noted in the write up), and am not sure it has the teeth to back up its game plan (16/16, Siege, and Raven are what makes this deck dangerous; otherwise it would just wither upon them starting a fight).

I think these decks are similar in that they're both using Whateley to aim for a first round check, but I would list Raven as pretty core to what this deck is doing (and certainly, the 2 CP deed is needed post-errata on Whately). They are fairly different decks, IMO; products of different eras of Doomtown.

Sep 09, 2019 LastWalter

I'm glad someone is abusing that part of Raven. Shortly after I started playing I tried to abuse it by just playing 0 deeds. It was fun, but was inconsistent.

Oct 20, 2020 NoChildren64

This level of ingenuity makes me feel ridiculous at how base my deck making is. Incredible!