It Pays to Win

published Jan 03, 2019 | | |
Card draw simulator
Odds: 0% – 0% – 0% – 0% more
Derived from
None. Self-made deck here.
Inspiration for
None yet

Halcyon72 10

This deck has been created to try to be a worthy counter to TomtheOlympians 108 Hit & Run deck which @lambretta has been using on our group recently to good effect.

The idea is to win lowball (I have gone games where this rarely happened) but when I do and I have Telepathy Helmet attached it can be fun to play. I have tried to include other cards that would negate Legendary Holster instant acing effect such as Shelby Hunt, Unprepared and Culpability Scientizer. Including Scoop Hound is an effort to stop the opponent's dude from fleeing a successful shootout.

Darius Hellstromme can be a liability if I get into a shootout before I have my gadget weapons attached: Hydro-Puncher or Aetheric Shockwave Inducer otherwise he proves very useful.

I have also included Incubation as a means to delay whoever is carrying Legendary Holster if they have been successful and booted back home I can try to keep them at home for another day if they don't like the card effects it carries.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated - but I am enjoying playing this deck.

15 comments
Jan 03, 2019 jordan caldwell

Koooool!

A grudge deck...

Jan 03, 2019 jordan caldwell

Taking a second look, may I ask to what extent is failing a pull for you gadgets an acceptable risk?

(I calculate in the ballpark of one out of three pulls fails!)

Jan 03, 2019 Halcyon72

The risk of failing a pull is about 1 in 3 as you noticed with the number of 3-values in the deck and sometimes the Aetheric Shockwave Inducer doesn't fire up properly either - but overall more wins than not. All of the gadgets are low difficulty generally which I was aware of when creating the deck and sometimes when I feel confident I use the home ability as well, so I am generally happy with the risk.

One issue of the deck is I have no CR as I focused hard on Shootout cards.

I have also toyed with idea of somehow starting Prof. Aloysius Roe or Henry Moran.

Jan 03, 2019 jordan caldwell

I personally love the options that exist within Mad Science that allow, for example, reasonable access to the Value of 3 (and all it's Action / Gadget goodies).

May I suggest starting Elander Boldman (Exp.1)

Jan 03, 2019 jordan caldwell
Jan 04, 2019 Halcyon72

Thanks @jordan caldwell for your tips. i had actually considered Elander Boldman for my starting deck but got anxious for the starting cost and lack of starting dudes - but I'll experiment and reconsider. Wagner Memorial Ranch is another good idea I hadn't considered.

Jan 08, 2019 Antonlion

An efficient way to counter both Legendary Holster and Hit & Run with Mad Science is A Slight Modification. You run a few 8s already, maybe you could use it as well.

Jan 08, 2019 TybarSunsong

Yeah, ASM is a great card, and Telepathy Helmet can be used booted!

Jan 10, 2019 lambretta

Boooooooo.........

Jan 11, 2019 LastWalter

Hello!

If anyone else in your meta needs a counter, Larry "Seven" Swift and Phantom Fingers is the start of something.

I was thinking about using Morgan Stables to move your guy in after and take an action or the like, but I'm not sure that's a real thing.

Would definitely echo calls for A Slight Modification - depending on who your opponent tries to ace, it might be worth cancelling the run away instead of the ace, so you can trap the person there and kill them. Would be board dependant though.

Jan 11, 2019 LastWalter

Hello!

If anyone else in your meta needs a counter, Larry "Seven" Swift and Phantom Fingers is the start of something.

I was thinking about using Morgan Stables to move your guy in after and take an action or the like, but I'm not sure that's a real thing.

Would definitely echo calls for A Slight Modification - depending on who your opponent tries to ace, it might be worth cancelling the run away instead of the ace, so you can trap the person there and kill them. Would be board dependent though.

Jan 12, 2019 TomTheOlympian

Thoughts incoming later this weekend :) I'm on mobile so I can't easily type them up at the moment.

Jan 13, 2019 TomTheOlympian

Alright, here we go.

I want to start by saying that I really like your attempt and thought process behind a lot of this. I'm going to do my best to explain why a lot of these don't work the way you want them to.

Hit & Run creates a trap for it's opponent that is very easy to fall into and in trying solve it I think you've accidentally fallen in. The deck reduces shootouts to one action from each player and attempts to leverage as much power of that action as possible.

Shootout actions that boot attachments or prevent send home and acing effects seem like they should be counters to the deck but are too slow in play to be effective when Hit & Run has won lowball.

The sequence of play for these situations usually breaks down to: 1. Both players form posses. 2. Hit & Run fires off Holster onto the most valuable target. 3. Opponent plays their Shootout action - Unprepared, Sun in Yer Eyes, Pinned Down, etc. 4. Hit & Run goes home ending the shootout.

The problem here is that all of the Shootout effects that are intended to fight against the Holster come out after the Holster is already used, creating a situation where you've had to Ace a dude and burnt a Shootout action from hand for no effect.

"But wait!" you say as you point to your Scoop Hound. "I'll use Scoop Hound so they can't run home!" Any dude with Scoop Hound becomes the biggest threat on the table against Hit & Run and will always be the first target they go after. Requiring you to have at least 2 of them in the shootout in order to be able to successfully prevent them from leaving. Even with 2 the Holster will still eat one of them every chance it gets.

Because of the shootout play sequence and speed of Hit & Run it is not a deck you can fight on its terms - you need to be able to catch it on the back foot in order to get any of these effects off.

Others have mentioned it but A Slight Modification can shut Hit & Run decks down hard by either preventing the Acing or the Run. Scoop Hound can also work but you need to see in en mass and be able to repeatedly get them into the same shootout (you'll still need to be able to repeatedly eat casualties though which can be difficult.

Campbell & Hatch Billiard Parlor is a great soft counter to Hit & Run as it forces them to get into 2 shootouts each turn and really wears down their ability to run repeatedly.

Telepathy Helmet is also a really great counter to Holster that I had never really thought of before (because who play it!?). Being able to reliably combine it with Scoop Hound would be devastating to Hit & Run.

Incubation Is a really creative idea, it would be especially effective if they don't have a secondary shooter available (but with 5 cheap back up shooters that's probably unlikely), as they could trade the Holster over to the new shooter.

One other potential issue you will face is that nearly all of your starting posse are vulnerable to Shotgun, which gives Hit & Run even more chances to Ace people.

Overall I really like your deck, although I think it's draw structure is likely too tight to be able to consistently beat Hit & Run in lowball and it doesn't have enough cards to be able to press it's advantage when it gets to catch it on the back foot.

Jan 13, 2019 Halcyon72

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on both of these decks and also @TomTheOlympianfor your analysis as well.

I fully agree with Tom's points because if I do not win lowball, I am at the mercy of Legendary Holster and over the course of a couple of 'days' I see my dudes pile up in Boot Hill and Telepathy Helmet can't save me. All of my shootout plays are effectively one turn behind the play and I can only watch LH do its damage and the dude skip back home. Even if I have Scoop Hound attached, it is too late to use - Make the Smart Choice is really effective here.

The times that I have won lowball more often than not, has made the game more chess-like and any win has been hard-fought.

So for both these decks - winning lowball is paramount. Culpability Scientizer is included to reverse the results of lowball if needed.

It's an interesting puzzle!

Jan 13, 2019 Halcyon72

And I can also add that I have lost a game entirely due to Shotgun as @lambretta never saw LH.